casual raiding ?

[Gube]

I want to apologize for some of the things Ive said in raids, Im struggling with being casual about EQ.

So please forgive my way.

I'm struggling to understand what casual means... Were asked to show up at certain times on certain days to help the guild progress. We earn CNP and its the only way to win gear you need to help the guild.

Your play and your effort really doesnt matter without the CNP at the end of the day.... So its your bidding skills and luck and how long you've been accruing CNP that allows you to play at a high level and handle new end game content.

As of last night we went from being casual about it all to being SO serious about winning that were are losing CNP for not winning.

I'm totally ok with that but we need to make up our mind as to what we are... Because right now were not gonna get thru T2 and not even to T3. You cant be playing a box and expect to win. (cleric / tank ) maybe.

If ive hurt some feeling the past few raids with my words please accept my apologies... I know some folks have delicate sensibilities and I do not. Other folks dont care either way... I'll try to remember that going forward.

If time played in guild and CNP bidding is how we think were gonna win, were screwed. It's not a union. It's a guild in EQ and EQ has a textbook way to be played a certain way to be a successful raid guild and not just casually trying our best to be one.

The guilds that win consistently all do it a certain way & I was asked to provide that knowledge and experience.

Im trying to do that, that is all, nothing more, if you guys have a hard time listening to me want to win, imagine how hard it is to listen to everyone casually joking about knowing we cant.

I cant be the only person frustrated, and wanting to up our game... If I am, than the casual thing is not for me....

You folks are really nice & been around awhile, I respect that.... So I dont mean to offend, I appreciate you all allowing me to play.


~ Gube

[Goofydoofy]

So, I've never had a problem the way this guild does things. Even when I was serious about Everquest and raided every raid. But, I've also never cared much about who gets loot. I know there are countless ways it can be done. The most logical is max out the tanks with the best shit first and go down a class list as who benefits more from the gear. But, that really isn't fair to others. Now, if we had an optimal raid force night after night and won every single raid that comes along, it might be feasible because there is plenty of shit to gear up everyone over the course of a year. We aren't that and never have been. I sometimes will go a year without raiding and over the 15 years, I have a little CNP saved up. If I raid again and outbid someone for something and win, is that fair? I say yes. I have the points. End of story. If I got them now or 15 years ago matters not, to me.

I'm not sure the specifics of what brought this topic up, because, I wasn't there. Surprise! But, casual raiding means you raid if you want to. It isn't a requirement of your guild membership. We should be taking each raid very seriously if we are raiding, however. And, that too, has been a topic of conversation throughout my 15+ years as being a member. Bottom line is, we want to have fun and raid, but there is nothing in place to make sure everyone raids or even gives a shit on a raid, other than kick them out of the raid(s). Which, in turn, produces other problems.

If you have a specific problem and can offer a specific possible solution, I'd bring it up directly with an officer. Again, keep in mind, we'll never be a hard-core raiding guild, so don't waste time trying to change that. Or, maybe we will be. I've seen stranger shit happen. But, I doubt it.

[Tandt]

Gube,

You are not alone. You also haven't been around long enough to know that what you are saying has been said 1000 times, by many of us. There are a handful of folks that carry a lot of members that are not (great raiders). This is by no means a jab at them. But as a casual raiding guild, even the Not Great Raiders get to experience the end game.

I know i took a few years sabbatical, that was more or less out of my hands, as i just could not play. lots of us have been in your shoes. We tried coaching, writing, explaining ect. Yelling doesn't work (i tried that). Belittling doesn't work (tried that also). Calling out just makes other people mad at you even if they are not the ones your calling out. Writing up pages and pages of how to play your toon sometimes works. But what i found works best is 1 on 1 time. Play with them get in a private channel and explain to them how they can be better. BTW fix your spam button, casting 100's of Full Moon's Champion is a tun of wasted endurance.

So if by any means you feel the urge to look over the parses, or know of a person that could use some 1 on 1 mentoring, go for it. Do it in private, do it properly, and maybe you can change a few people.

[Gube]

If casual means that ist ok to not show up... No pressure. Than if you do show up, its the exact opposite right >?

I hear you all. I see the points. I understand even.

But if were losing CNP for bad raiding, we are a hardcore raid guild right ?

I just was in a hard core raid guild that just handed everyone gear without having to even ask for it. Everyone trusts the leadership.

And now I'm in a "casusal" guild that is taking the CNP from losses I'm counting on to get gear.

I read everything above & understand... But if were counting on loss CNP to get gear the new people will never get gear.

Fair ? Im not complainin btw, Im just learning.

I know youve heard it a thousand times... So maybe im just another guy in a long line of STFU if you dont like it, but, at some point we need to do whats good for the guild for the the sake of the players.

"Fair" is a very loose term.

Thank you for allowing me to speak.

[Gube]

Im sorry but I like you folks and it pains me to hear you say ...

"Were not happy with the way things are goin on raids", but then resist changes in the name of "the way we do it" is hard for me.

We have the talent, just need some more of it ... Is there a recruitment officer ?

[Gube]

120 Shaman, 120 SK, 120 Cleric, 120 Chanter, 120 Rogue, 120 BST This is one person in our guild that has the most impressive lineups of characters in the guild.

If this person put 1/6th of the time into his main they might actually live on raids. They are all paper. All these boxxes could be mains in the same time he made them with recruitment.

Imagine if we added that line up of mains to the raid force in the same time he built boxes he cant use. Im all for making your game yours, but being in a guild that raids means you have a responsibility to these people that are dying for and because of you.

This person is NOT casual about EQ if he has all these 120's hes, just not out for the best interest of the other players in the guild as a whole.. A guild isnt a name on a screen its actual people that want to play the whole game that are giving actual time out of real life to others success and progress in EQ. Every expansion that goes by not finished makes the one after that even harder.

In the name of fairness this is ok ?

[Gube]

I can understand not recruiting if were casual.

You cant be telling people "Wed like you to help us on raids but you dont have to worry about it, were casual." Very wishy washy.. Right ?

But...

We need DPS in a bad bad way... What are we doing to address it ?

[edsarto]

I think many of us realize where we are as far as raiding. I joined CN because I knew some folks and knew we could win some raids and might struggle with some but would still have fun while doing it. I am nowhere near a hardcore raider as some may be. I do hold myself to a very high standard and will/have adjusted my style to give the best chance to win the raids we are in. I have raided with both CT and UF. RL got in the way for the most part while with them and to be fair, I didn't need to see the easy wins because gear doesn't drive me. This is not to say gear isn't important, because for some classes it is and for others spells are important and others a mix.

For the most part I have added toons periodically on raids where I know they will help the raids. There are many here that run several toons and do it well and give it their all each time. In spite of my struggle with my necro the other night, it was done with great intentions and I just didn't perform that night up to my standards, let alone what the guild expects.

I have posted a lot on the boards to help those playing the SK but I always leave it open ended so folks can play their style. Numbers speak volume, at least for me. Those numbers help me understand what is needed. I can always improve my play and some nights I'm spot on. I take some of the approach Tandt listed and talked directly to folks. I have also commented in group during raids to let folks know where we stand based on assigned duties.

I have been here for about a year now and I will say I still am motivated to raid and enjoy the company that CN offers. I help folks when I can with many things like gear upgrades and spell upgrades, collections and TS supplies. All of that is so those folks can upgrade gear and such and that will ultimately help the raids in the long run. I want us to succeed in every raid. I am also a realist and know we aren't going to win them all. I also know there is a good portion of folks that want to win them all.

With all that being said the approach you take will impact how well folks hear you. My approach doesn't work with some and I'm sure some don't hear me at all. Doesn't mean Ill scream louder and longer. I keep speaking what I know and hope it does help.

[Neo]

To me the difference between casual and hardcore is not the raids attempted, it is the time commitment. 3 short raid nights versus a 5-6 day schedule. Casual doesn't mean show up and miss emotes. People will miss emotes, it happens to everyone eventually. My first raid with CN i was told to duck when emoted......well I did, i /ducked...failed the emote. Dont think I've failed one since? Whatever happened last raid....I have no words. I mean I do have words, which is why i mute myself....

[Rashod]

I find the discussion very interesting, because hardcore to me takes a different meaning. To me it's nothing about game play time, but instead a mindset. I would say some of the most hardcore players I'm EQ actually raid less than CN these days.

I classify myself as hardcore. To me that hardcore mindset really comes down pushing the envelope for 5 more dps. Parsing lineups, weapon differences, Aug differences. Constant research and outside game eq conversation and learning. Learning events and how the group you are with will change what you need to do to maximize your outputs. That means learning the events to know the next target to plan your movement to be in the right place to maximize dps. It means learning event to know the right times to burn, add your adps to the group, etc (this includes not burning or using adps in a way that is inefficient. Spell increases to resistany mobs, melee burns on mobs that mitigate melee damage). I could go on for days here, but like I said to me hardcore is 100% a mindset.

CN clearly has and has always had both casual and a couple hardcore or semi-hardcore, what people may not know is I put this number at less than 5%. The only thing that keeps me in CN our my relationships with a fair number of people. I often weigh those relationships vs. My ambitions and to this point the relationships have always won out.

As far as loots concerned feel free to read the 500 pages of posts regarding the topic on these wonderful forums. It's really been beaten to death in the past. I continue to stand by gear doesn't make the player the player makes the gear.

And finally very very often the folks that complain about performance should look in the mirror at themselves first. When I get super frustrated and do this myself I find 100 dps here and there. That's right even the humble Rashod can still improve.

And Gube, noone wants you to sit down and shut up, just be respectful and find the right time and place for suggestions. The boards are a great place after a raid for some discussion about ideas for improvement. TeamSpeak mid hit and rsay not so hot and rubs folks the wrong way.

[Littlabit]

Hardcore to me .. you are REQUIRED to met a certain DPS .. you are required to met a % of raid time.. you are required to be knowledgeable of the hit before hand and MUST do the group mission before trying the raid, you are required to met a heal %. etc etc. also if you cant play right then you are made to sit out until you learn your requirements / class / dps / heals and are not allowed to raid until you met said requirements. You keep screwing up you are removed from raid right then and there and can not come back till you can play your class right. this is what hardcore means to me

That is why we are classified as a family guild. do not mistake that ALL players are not hardcore mind set. I don't want to be hardcore but I DO want to give it my all on raids (grouping does not count I am allowed to kill Tandt as much as I want) I research and do the group missions long before we try the raid. I know what my toon can do, I watch video after video on other guilds hits. I read from others boards what they do.

YES its so damn frustrating that "some" of us work our assess off on raids and some just skate along its been happening for years. I have been with CN since 2000 and a few breaks here and there. But I am a mom with a special needs child and I own a business that I work a lot of hours. I want to come home and play with my friends not be stressed out sure!! But I DO expect if you are going to come to the raid TRY your ass off don't waste others time if that is what you are going to do then just don't come !

I wish there was a simple answer @Gube I really do we have been dealing with this for YEARS and YEARS we bitch we threaten we yell we get pissed but guess what you can't make folks do better if they don't care as much as you and we will never kick them from raids because really we wouldn't be able to raid sorry to say. When a alt in the raid does better then a main that is a problem for me. That is why we are not Hardcore and say we are a family guild that raids. We have tried for so hard to make people care but hell maybe only 20% of the raiders even come to the board. Yes I can check so yes I know who comes here.

Please don't think we don't care because trust me a good 20-30 ( and that may a high number) really DO care and what to kick ass and takes names. But I also am tired of beating my head on the desk and never getting anywhere "some" people.

As for the CNP I went ahead and gave what Omm would give because well some folks do show up and try and its not fair to penalize them for others that do 2% damage. or 2 % healing.

Its the red head in me that made me say no CNP. Just needed a friend to send me a PM and smack me to make me realize that I can't do that to all.

I hope this explains from my view and the pain and suffering we have endured as officers before you came here and make you see its not that we don't care we are just beat down tired of asking , begging , pleading, threatening, and if I could find another adjective I would use it to explain how we feel.

Thanks for reading my book
Bit

[Tandt]

books are overrated. watch a movie.

[Goofydoofy]

books are overrated. watch a movie.

Preferably Animal Porn.

[Tarvas]

Players who think the only requirement to raid is having an internet connection are why I haven't gotten up at 2 AM in the last couple of years (the other being horrendous lag). Time is valuable, and too many people like wasting it. Kudos to all you folks who have stuck it out.

[Gube]

Ty for listening, Im glad to be part of the guild.

[Neo]

Hardcore to me .. you are REQUIRED to met a certain DPS .. you are required to met a % of raid time.. you are required to be knowledgeable of the hit before hand and MUST do the group mission before trying the raid, you are required to met a heal %. etc etc. also if you cant play right then you are made to sit out until you learn your requirements / class / dps / heals and are not allowed to raid until you met said requirements. You keep screwing up you are removed from raid right then and there and can not come back till you can play your class right. this is what hardcore means to me


Thanks for reading my book
Bit

have Ommina make a little RNG app to roll 3 people in attendance at each raid. they become the "raid leaders" they explain the event. No one should get a pass on not knowing a raid mechanic. any single member should be capable of leading the raids we do, EVERYONE should understand the mechanic.

[Neo]

and for the love of god if you have extreme lag and KNOW your on an event that emotes people.....SIT OUT! OK back to mute now.

[Elfinia]

and for the love of god if you have extreme lag and KNOW your on an event that emotes people.....SIT OUT! OK back to mute now.

Thats what I did, sucks but I didnt want to mess anything up.

Also, there is no reason anyone should be talking during the event, snide comments, jokes, etc...during the event, should not be happening. If you are not a raid officer or the raid leader, there is no reason anyone should be talking mid hit.

Millenry